SERIOUS TOPIC : What about a full tutorial ?

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Yagotzirck
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Re: SERIOUS TOPIC : What about a full tutorial ?

Post by Yagotzirck » November 9th, 2018, 11:18 am

You didn't ask for help; asking for help would have been along the lines of "I tried everything I could to achieve X but I couldn't find a way around it, what can I do?"
What you did instead was asking for someone else to do all the heavylifting for you without giving any hint about what your current skillsets are (and therefore even with the best intentions nobody can properly address you), and despite everyone telling you that it's impossible to do such a tutorial you flushed every advice you got down the toilet and kept reiterating yourself over and over :shrug
Just think about it: if you aren't willing to put the necessary effort to learn something yourself, what makes you think that someone else is going to do it for you?

In other words, you're doing the equivalent of asking someone to teach you how to ride a bike, while all you do is comfortably sit on a bench and watch him riding it... assuming anyone is willing to accept such an idiotic request you won't learn anything, you just have to ride it yourself, falling off it, getting up again, and so on and so forth until you got it.

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Re: SERIOUS TOPIC : What about a full tutorial ?

Post by Orion_ » November 9th, 2018, 9:34 pm

nice metaphor
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Re: SERIOUS TOPIC : What about a full tutorial ?

Post by gwald » November 11th, 2018, 10:56 pm

New Nova wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 10:10 am
Actually, I KNOW how to make game (I made a frickin' 2 players Chess), but what I want to learn, is PS1 programming, because it's fun. And I will do it, even if you think it's too hard "for me".
It can take time, but I will be able to create games on the PS1 one day.
Thanks for "all the helps".
Good for you man! 8-)
I wasn't 'green' when I started on the Net Yaroze.
I had 1 year of C/C++ programming and 6 months of (immediate mode) openGL at uni.
And even then, it still wasn't enough! it really is a trial by fire, any limited spec hardware is, and it's great experience!
New Nova wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 9:10 am
I'm a little noob at C programming XD
I think the point here, is try and do your chess game in C using command line gcc first, ie using SDL/GLFW or even allegro is pretty cool!, https://www.allegro.cc

Don't get scared off by the old timers, they get like that when noobs want the impossible!
We all really want more PSX dev's here for sure!
But this isn't the place to learn C or gcc :roll:
If you want to make a playstation game, the trick is not to quit :ugeek:
Anyway, good luck!

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Re: SERIOUS TOPIC : What about a full tutorial ?

Post by New Nova » November 11th, 2018, 11:49 pm

For Yagotzirck, I just propose to do a full tutorial BECAUSE I can't find it on the internet (this is too specific). And it's not "for me", but for beginners, because if they learn with the tutorial, they will want to try themselves to make a game with what they learn.
You think I'm just someone asking you to teach me while I'm sitting in my couch. You think what you think, but if you think it, it's just that you DIDN'T UNDERSTAND what I mean about "Make A Full Tutorial For Beginners". Do you learn ANYTHING with the "Hello World Tutorial" ? NO. Because it's not a tutorial, it's just "hey, copy-paste the code and run it !", AND SO I think that a FULL tutorial for beginners will be cool. But you see the bad everywhere...
MY PONG IS NOT READY

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Re: SERIOUS TOPIC : What about a full tutorial ?

Post by Orion_ » November 11th, 2018, 11:53 pm

making such tutorial takes lots of time, it took me days to write the tutorial I made, and yet it seems not enough for you ..
when you learn programming in engineering school, you don't learn step by step how to make something, you learn how to search by yourself, because computer technology change so rapidly that you constantly need to learn new things
if you don't have the mindset to tell to yourself "I want to make a pong, how could I make a ball move ?" then you will never succeed in being a programmer, because being a programmer is not knowing how to code, it's knowing how to solve problems.
New Nova wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 10:33 pm
actually I'm trying to make a pong game, but event that is difficult (I don't know how to make limits, how to make the ball moving by herself etc..) and I know that I'm a beginner.
I was 12 years old when I tried to code my own pong game, which was more like a single player pong.
how can I make the ball move ? well, let's try do a X++; until I hit the wall coordinate, then get back with X--; and then you improve on it and starts making more difficult things
Last edited by Orion_ on November 12th, 2018, 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SERIOUS TOPIC : What about a full tutorial ?

Post by lamb_of_senpai » November 12th, 2018, 1:41 am

New Nova wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 11:49 pm
Do you learn ANYTHING with the "Hello World Tutorial" ? NO. Because it's not a tutorial, it's just "hey, copy-paste the code and run it !"
Wrong. You do learn from it if you know what to look for. And you only know what to look for if you're familiar with programming and, especially, game programming.

It's like if I asked a Spaniard to teach me how to write a great Spanish novel. His first response would be "well, learn Spanish!" And then I say to him "No no no, I skimmed through Don Quixote but I didn't learn anything from it."

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Re: SERIOUS TOPIC : What about a full tutorial ?

Post by Yagotzirck » November 12th, 2018, 2:40 am

New Nova wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 11:49 pm
For Yagotzirck, I just propose to do a full tutorial BECAUSE I can't find it on the internet (this is too specific). And it's not "for me", but for beginners, because if they learn with the tutorial, they will want to try themselves to make a game with what they learn.
You think I'm just someone asking you to teach me while I'm sitting in my couch. You think what you think, but if you think it, it's just that you DIDN'T UNDERSTAND what I mean about "Make A Full Tutorial For Beginners". Do you learn ANYTHING with the "Hello World Tutorial" ? NO. Because it's not a tutorial, it's just "hey, copy-paste the code and run it !", AND SO I think that a FULL tutorial for beginners will be cool. But you see the bad everywhere...
I don't see "the bad everywhere", I'm just being realistic ;)

Since this full tutorial you talk about would be aimed towards beginners it means it'd have to explain everything into detail without taking anything for granted, and that means explaining stuff such as:
  • Low-level/embedded programming (because at the end of the day, that's what PSX programming really is)
  • MIPS architecture/assembly
  • Fixed-point math (since the psx has no math coprocessor)
  • Linear algebra
just to name a few off the top of my head; and, jesus christ, most (if not all) of those subjects would fill a book on their own!

Of course, this hypothetical "full tutorial for beginners" could skip all that stuff assuming you already know it and jump straight into PSX programming, but then the "full tutorial for beginners" would become a "full tutorial for intermediate users/CS graduates who already know their stuff and want to give PSX programming a go", and beginners wouldn't still be able to understand anything :roll:

TL;DR: It's impossible to do the tutorial you're asking for, for the simple reason that the prerequisites are by themselves a huge barrier for beginners and including them in the tutorial would be too much for both the author to write and the reader to grasp all at once.

Nobody's telling you that you can't make it or whatever, you're just being told that you have to make it on your own, possibly by starting with something simpler and with more information available such as PC programming and then build your way up from there; if, despite all things, you still want to start with the PSX and can endure being exposed to the stuff I mentioned all at once, then best of luck :)

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Re: SERIOUS TOPIC : What about a full tutorial ?

Post by rama3 » November 12th, 2018, 3:44 am

The replies in this thread are 100% quotable!

I especially like "because behind a programmer is not knowing how to code, it's knowing how to solve problems" ;)

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Re: SERIOUS TOPIC : What about a full tutorial ?

Post by Xavi92 » November 12th, 2018, 7:57 pm

I know this is a common catchphrase, but please start small; you will get overwhelmed otherwise. When I started back in 2011, I barely knew about C, but I surely knew I had to start with small projects. Even if they might appear uninteresting at first, everything you will learn from it will be extremely valuable. And that will encourage you to make something bigger. Just be patient and get used to learn things the hard way if you are going to do PSX pgramming.

On the other hand, most of my video games are open-source so anyone can (hopefully!) learn from them. Take this one as an example:
https://github.com/XaviDCR92/Airport

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