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Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

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Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby yaroze » June 14th, 2016, 3:58 am

Hi all. I've created some basic demos using the PSY-Q and Yaroze dev kits, and had a few questions that I was hoping somebody could kindly answer for me:-

1) When Sony decided to launch a homebrew development platform for the PlayStation in 1996/7 (which later became the Net Yaroze), why did Sony demand that users had to purchase an entirely new black PlayStation, rather than simply creating a cheap PSXSERIAL type cable (and disc) which could attach to people's existing grey PlayStations ? (which surely would've encouraged a much higher uptake)

Was it simply a cunning ploy to sell more units (and/or to ensure it remained an "elite item", which is counterproductive in my view), or was there something specific about the black PlayStation which benefited development in some way (such as more RAM, which I'm not aware of) or hindered piracy (such as restricting access to the CD-ROM drive, which was perhaps a feature that hadn't been adequately incorporated into the standard grey models) ?


2) What was the purpose of the "Access Card" dongle which came with the Yaroze machine? I realise that the Yaroze boot disc refused to load software without it, but why was it required?

Presumably this was to prevent piracy in some way, but I can't quite understand how (a chipped grey PS1 able to boot a copied version of the Yaroze boot disc is able to boot pirated software anyway, and surely anybody with access to a 'legit' Yaroze disc would also have access to the dongle - rendering it obselete ?)


3) Why was the Net Yaroze a multi-region machine? (i.e. allowing games from all regions to boot). I'd initially assumed this was to save manufacturing costs (i.e. to avoid having to produce separate machines for each region due to limited demand), but I later realised that each region had its own (multi-region) version of the Yaroze anyway.


Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby gwald » June 14th, 2016, 10:20 am

yaroze wrote:Hi all. I've created some basic demos using the PSY-Q and Yaroze dev kits, and had a few questions that I was hoping somebody could kindly answer for me:-


1) When Sony decided to launch a homebrew development platform for the PlayStation in 1996/7 (which later became the Net Yaroze), why did Sony demand that users had to purchase an entirely new black PlayStation, rather than simply creating a cheap PSXSERIAL type cable (and disc) which could attach to people's existing grey PlayStations ? (which surely would've encouraged a much higher uptake)

Sony has always had a good and supportive 3rd party developer relationship (compared to Nintendo/Sega) and so to replicate this in with the Yaroze they also included it and was the Net in Net Yaroze (a usergroup, with access to other NY users, pro dev kit users and Sony tech and support (which a cheap cable & cdrom can't do), and also personal website and access to other NY user's personal website), programming the Net Yaroze even with highlevel GS libraries, it requires a lot of time, skill and determination.. so it's obviously not a retail thing and Sony official development isn't cheap either.
I also think the pro kit (50,000USD) came with their own playstations also, green & blue.
So it made sense.

The idea of the NY, really was to replicate the homebrew scene from the 80's on 8bit micro computers.
Were people taught themselves and made whatever they liked.
Unfortunately, because 3D was very new and difficult (not the programming so much, but the assets and pipeline), it disappointed a few NY members and wondered why Sony didn't make it easier lol :shrug
In hindsight, it would have worked better for Sony if they removed 3D support all together on the NY. :twisted:

Was it simply a cunning ploy to sell more units (and/or to ensure it remained an "elite item", which is counterproductive in my view), or was there something specific about the black PlayStation which benefited development in some way (such as more RAM, which I'm not aware of) or hindered piracy (such as restricting access to the CD-ROM drive, which was perhaps a feature that hadn't been adequately incorporated into the standard grey models) ?

No, NY memebers had to sign a NDA (non disclosure agreement) agree not to share code, binaries and documentation, nor reverse engineer it.
I remember reading it, and recall something like, Sony owns the hardware, should they want it back.
Also, they gave them freely to universities and some members didn't even get their money taken out for the purchase of it. It was also cancelled less then a year, so it wasn't made for making Sony more money.
No extra RAM, but you can't really develop on a playstation if you have to move it from your lounge room TV to your bedroom, etc.
NY, has read access to CDROM and can play CD audio, It also has remote debugging (rdb).

The benefit for Sony was access to new talent and ideas, and they did hire a few NY members and publish a NY game (a 2D soccer game), and some NY members did enter the game industry via the NY.

2) What was the purpose of the "Access Card" dongle which came with the Yaroze machine? I realise that the Yaroze boot disc refused to load software without it, but why was it required?

Presumably this was to prevent piracy in some way, but I can't quite understand how (a chipped grey PS1 able to boot a copied version of the Yaroze boot disc is able to boot pirated software anyway, and surely anybody with access to a 'legit' Yaroze disc would also have access to the dongle - rendering it obselete ?)

I'm guessing it was so the NY development environment couldn't be pirated easily, just like a game.
Their trying to protect their dev env. which would have cost more money to make then a game or two.

So not obsolete, the NY boot cd can be copied and booted, but it wont work on a chipped PSX without the dongle, thus protecting Sony's property.
Dongles are still used in software today to protect from piracy.

3) Why was the Net Yaroze a multi-region machine? (i.e. allowing games from all regions to boot). I'd initially assumed this was to save manufacturing costs (i.e. to avoid having to produce separate machines for each region due to limited demand), but I later realised that each region had its own (multi-region) version of the Yaroze anyway.

Users shared their games via the personal websites, so the NY had to play all regions NTSC/PAL, because we all targeted different regions.
I guess Sony, just extended this to being region free booting also.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.


Good questions :mrgreen:
You need perspective, the PSX is 20 years old (hacked to death now) but it was the first successful mainstream 3D console, and the NY came out at the peak of this, two years after the Japaneses launch.
There was a lot of secrecy about technology, and the manufactures recouped their money on hardware via game sales.
So putting out a dev kit, basically for free was a big risk.

But now we have unity3D, 20 years of 3D books, 3D software is cheap.. :roll:
Sony has a PSP homebrew thing, xbox also has some indie program.
AndroidTV is getting more support and, Sony and Xbox don't know how to make consoles anymore :/




Here's my experience with the NY:
http://xpcoin.com/2016/02/22/net-yaroze ... s-console/

And some interviews with others:
http://www.superinternetfriends.com
Last edited by gwald on June 14th, 2016, 3:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby Matt » June 14th, 2016, 12:28 pm

1) Yes. It was a way to make Sony more money. The official SDK existed, so they cut it down and whipped up the Yaroze SDK. The Yaroze is just a fancy boxed console. It's nothing more than a standard PSX mainboard inside. Same RAM, same everything. They very well could have made just a serial cable with the boot disc, but who would pay $1,000 AUD for just that at the time. So instead, they made it look all special by just changing the plastic pellets in the injection moulding process to make it a black console and included a 'dongle' Memory Card which the serial software looks for to stop standard PlayStation's booting the Yaroze boot disc. Too bad it was cracked here.

2) As mentioned above, the dongle was used to stop standard grey PlayStation's from booting the Yaroze boot disc which contains the 'console program' to accept communications from SIOCONS on the PC side. It was cracked, so the dongle is garbage now. You do not need a Yaroze to use the Yaroze SDK or make/play Yaroze games. PSXSERIAL is better than the Yaroze and SIOCONS because it uses less RAM in the PSX. This means you have more room to store data. Also, it works without the handshaking lines so you only need to wire 3 wires to the PSX from your PC.

3) Probably so that they could ship them all around the world and not worry about region locking on the submissions from people all around the world on the Yaroze developers website at the time. As a note, the Yaroze does use a SCEW boot code. It has been confirmed.
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby yaroze » June 17th, 2016, 4:45 am

Thanks for your responses. A few other thoughts:-

1)I agree that nobody would pay $1000 just for a serial cable and a few discs, but theoretically I would have thought this simpler kit (without a black PlayStation included) could have been sold for a lower price point of around $50 instead (and perhaps sold to 20 times as many people)

The only arguments against this are that perhaps Sony only wanted to sell the kit to 'serious' developers (rather than wasting their time providing support on the Yaroze forums to programmers unlikely to ever code professionally), and also perhaps that the CodeWarriors IDE was too expensive to sell for a low price? (and therefore, as you point out, the PlayStation was included as a means of making the package seem like good value for money)

I seem to remember Microsoft doing something similar with the DVD remote on the original Xbox (nobody would pay $20 just for a DVD license, but including a remote control made it seem like a worthwhile purchase).

Maybe Sony just didn't want professional developers buying a cheaper dev kit..... (if they made money on PSY-Q)

2)To clarify my point on the 'dongle' - I realise that a chipped (grey) PS1 wouldn't be able to boot a (non-cracked) copy of the Yaroze disc without a dongle, but my point is that a chipped PS1 shouldn't need a Yaroze disc (cracked or otherwise) to run homebrew or pirated software anyway (as it can run any executables directly from a CD-R disc, instead of via the serial cable).

That said, I'm guessing that mastering a CD presented its own challenges (particularly in 1997) and so the Yaroze disc (enabling serial access) was still valuable to Sony (and potential bootleggers) in some way

3)I've never understood why PlayStation discs (once booted) didn't simply read the BIOS in order to detect what region / model of machine it was running on (via the country code located at offset 0x7FF52, or through other data elsewhere); this would've prevented imported games from being run via disc-swapping or basic modchipping (unless a GameShark, 'super' modchip and/or cracked / modified disc was used to bypass the check), and surely also would have solved the problem you described without the use of a dongle (the Yaroze boot disc could easily detect whether it was running on a standard grey PlayStation, even if someone had used disc-swapping to get it to boot).

I know that the mini-PSone performed a similar check (except this was the hardware checking the software, rather than the other way around as I'm suggesting), and that some games (such as Medieval, FF8, RE3, etc) also checked for blank sectors on the (copied) disc and/or the presence of modchips, so it's not unprecedented.

Incidentally, I also thought that comparing the table-of-contents with the 'expected' values on the disc would easily prevent disc-swapping (but not modchipping); I'm not sure whether any game ever did this

4)By 'SCEW', do you mean the country / wobble code used to check the region / legitimacy of the disc? (i.e. SCEE, SCEA, SCEI). Was SCEW Yaroze-specific?

Incidentally – I know that the basic 4-wire modchips simply cycle all three country codes in succession, so does this mean that (theoretically) Sony could have produced a multi-region disc for the PS1 ? (given that the PS1 apparently doesn't balk at the presence of a 'foreign' code on the disc). If so, then was this intentional, or just an oversight by Sony? (I realise that said disc probably wouldn't boot on the mini-PSone due to the additional checks, though)

5)I remember reading in EDGE magazine that the Singapore (SCPH-7503 models) had "extra" protection against piracy – does anybody know what these were?

6)I was surprised that the Yaroze (launched in 1997 post SCPH-5xxx) used the old SCPH-100x layout with the laser on the left, given that this supposedly contributed to the infamous skipping problem (as it was above the power supply), although I also heard that the poor quality lasers and/or poor ventilation on these models was primarily to blame

7)I'm going off-topic here, but I remember reading in EDGE magazine that Wipeout on PS1 almost included a 50/60Hz option in PAL regions. I also heard that the mini-PSone was supposed to "upscale" old PAL games to 60 Hz (which I sometimes do myself via a GameShark) but this feature was dropped (perhaps due to PAL-optimised games being stretched off-screen, or the off-centre borders which could result?)

Incidentally, I know that the PS2 was able to output a 'true' PAL-60 image without modification (as I've seen and tested homebrew discs able to toggle between PAL50, NTSC and PAL60), but for some reason the PAL retail discs only allowed NTSC for 60 Hz? (not PAL60, even when games such as "Soul Calibur 2" labelled it as such) Was this simply to sell more RGB SCART leads? (to avoid the black & white image). None of the competing consoles did this (GameCube, Xbox or Dreamcast all allowed a true PAL 60 image). I'm surprised that Sony didn't ever allow an NTSC output on the PAL PS1 models if they were this sloppy !

PCSX2 incorrectly identifies the PAL60 mode as PAL50 though (rather than NTSC) – I may try and rummage through the source code to discover why !

Thanks again for a great website / forum.
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby gwald » June 17th, 2016, 10:11 am

1) like I said before, you can't develop on a playstation if you have to move it from your lounge room TV to your bedroom, etc.
The pro kit also includes green/blue playstation.
It wasn't included to make it worth something or to make Sony rich, but to replicate their pro setup.

"Maybe Sony just didn't want professional developers buying a cheaper dev kit..... (if they made money on PSY-Q)"
That's why the libraries were cut to 300k and put in the playstations memory as a DLL.

2)I had a burner in 1998, it was SCSI 2x burning and costed more then the NY, the cheapest CDR's were 1-2AUD each.
But, you can't develop anything if you had to burn a CDR to see the results.

3)After boot, it's a waste of time checking region/wobble, but later games do (Final fantasy) rechecks for the wobble signal.

"Incidentally, I also thought that comparing the table-of-contents with the 'expected' values on the disc would easily prevent disc-swapping (but not modchipping); I'm not sure whether any game ever did this"
The TOC is only reread when the lid has been opened, thus the need for the spring on the swap trick.
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby Matt » June 17th, 2016, 1:02 pm

yaroze wrote:1) The only arguments against this are that perhaps Sony only wanted to sell the kit to 'serious' developers (rather than wasting their time providing support on the Yaroze forums to programmers unlikely to ever code professionally), and also perhaps that the CodeWarriors IDE was too expensive to sell for a low price? (and therefore, as you point out, the PlayStation was included as a means of making the package seem like good value for money)

I seem to remember Microsoft doing something similar with the DVD remote on the original Xbox (nobody would pay $20 just for a DVD license, but including a remote control made it seem like a worthwhile purchase).

Maybe Sony just didn't want professional developers buying a cheaper dev kit..... (if they made money on PSY-Q)

2)To clarify my point on the 'dongle' - I realise that a chipped (grey) PS1 wouldn't be able to boot a (non-cracked) copy of the Yaroze disc without a dongle, but my point is that a chipped PS1 shouldn't need a Yaroze disc (cracked or otherwise) to run homebrew or pirated software anyway (as it can run any executables directly from a CD-R disc, instead of via the serial cable).

That said, I'm guessing that mastering a CD presented its own challenges (particularly in 1997) and so the Yaroze disc (enabling serial access) was still valuable to Sony (and potential bootleggers) in some way

3)I've never understood why PlayStation discs (once booted) didn't simply read the BIOS in order to detect what region / model of machine it was running on (via the country code located at offset 0x7FF52, or through other data elsewhere); this would've prevented imported games from being run via disc-swapping or basic modchipping (unless a GameShark, 'super' modchip and/or cracked / modified disc was used to bypass the check), and surely also would have solved the problem you described without the use of a dongle (the Yaroze boot disc could easily detect whether it was running on a standard grey PlayStation, even if someone had used disc-swapping to get it to boot).

I know that the mini-PSone performed a similar check (except this was the hardware checking the software, rather than the other way around as I'm suggesting), and that some games (such as Medieval, FF8, RE3, etc) also checked for blank sectors on the (copied) disc and/or the presence of modchips, so it's not unprecedented.

Incidentally, I also thought that comparing the table-of-contents with the 'expected' values on the disc would easily prevent disc-swapping (but not modchipping); I'm not sure whether any game ever did this

4)By 'SCEW', do you mean the country / wobble code used to check the region / legitimacy of the disc? (i.e. SCEE, SCEA, SCEI). Was SCEW Yaroze-specific?

Incidentally – I know that the basic 4-wire modchips simply cycle all three country codes in succession, so does this mean that (theoretically) Sony could have produced a multi-region disc for the PS1 ? (given that the PS1 apparently doesn't balk at the presence of a 'foreign' code on the disc). If so, then was this intentional, or just an oversight by Sony? (I realise that said disc probably wouldn't boot on the mini-PSone due to the additional checks, though)

5)I remember reading in EDGE magazine that the Singapore (SCPH-7503 models) had "extra" protection against piracy – does anybody know what these were?

6)I was surprised that the Yaroze (launched in 1997 post SCPH-5xxx) used the old SCPH-100x layout with the laser on the left, given that this supposedly contributed to the infamous skipping problem (as it was above the power supply), although I also heard that the poor quality lasers and/or poor ventilation on these models was primarily to blame

7)I'm going off-topic here, but I remember reading in EDGE magazine that Wipeout on PS1 almost included a 50/60Hz option in PAL regions. I also heard that the mini-PSone was supposed to "upscale" old PAL games to 60 Hz (which I sometimes do myself via a GameShark) but this feature was dropped (perhaps due to PAL-optimised games being stretched off-screen, or the off-centre borders which could result?)

Incidentally, I know that the PS2 was able to output a 'true' PAL-60 image without modification (as I've seen and tested homebrew discs able to toggle between PAL50, NTSC and PAL60), but for some reason the PAL retail discs only allowed NTSC for 60 Hz? (not PAL60, even when games such as "Soul Calibur 2" labelled it as such) Was this simply to sell more RGB SCART leads? (to avoid the black & white image). None of the competing consoles did this (GameCube, Xbox or Dreamcast all allowed a true PAL 60 image). I'm surprised that Sony didn't ever allow an NTSC output on the PAL PS1 models if they were this sloppy !

PCSX2 incorrectly identifies the PAL60 mode as PAL50 though (rather than NTSC) – I may try and rummage through the source code to discover why !

Thanks again for a great website / forum.


1) Yes, and SN. Systems actually made their own professional debugging and development cartridge to replace the DTL-H2000. This is that blue cartridge that looks exactly like an Xplorer/Xploder. It has a yellow PCB inside with a coin battery and some Altera CPLD's. This never took off though, and Sony didn't like it apparently.

2) Yes, but you need a modchip because otherwise, the HC05 MCU doesn't pass it's validation check since there is no wobble code being sent from the CD-ROM controller to it.

3) Some models do check the BIOS versus the license from the disc and compare them. If they don't match, the game won't boot. Japanese consoles will not boot PAL games for this reason, but if you swap the BIOS it will then work.

4) Yes, the Yaroze discs have SCEW as their wobble. It's been a while, but you've just triggered my memory, and that was the only special thing about the Yaroze. Its BIOS checked for SCEW. Standard grey PlayStation's would not boot the SCEW boot disc (I know because I have one), but the version that's cracked (linked above) was re-injected with a standard license boot code to make it work on grey PSX's. A multi-region disc is a Japanese licensed disc, since all PSX models will boot a Japanese licensed game image, except for the PSone's apparently.

5) Probably a new BIOS which checks for modchips. I think this when those screens with the red cross started appearing.

6) Sony might have used them as they had a surplus left over, so to move their stock they just whacked them in Yaroze's.

7) I'm not sure about that, but you can manually (with trickery such as using a Game Shark) force the game into 60 Hz.

As for the PS2 stuff, I'm not a PS2 expert so I'd rather not say anything there :P

You can get NTSC out on a PAL PSX console, but you need to install dual-oscillators.
IE: A PAL PSX needs an NTSC oscillator, and an NTSC PSX needs a PAL oscillator.
More information about that here.

gwald wrote:1) like I said before, you can't develop on a playstation if you have to move it from your lounge room TV to your bedroom, etc.
The pro kit also includes green/blue playstation.
It wasn't included to make it worth something or to make Sony rich, but to replicate their pro setup.

"Maybe Sony just didn't want professional developers buying a cheaper dev kit..... (if they made money on PSY-Q)"
That's why the libraries were cut to 300k and put in the playstations memory as a DLL.

2)I had a burner in 1998, it was SCSI 2x burning and costed more then the NY, the cheapest CDR's were 1-2AUD each.
But, you can't develop anything if you had to burn a CDR to see the results.

3)After boot, it's a waste of time checking region/wobble, but later games do (Final fantasy) rechecks for the wobble signal.

"Incidentally, I also thought that comparing the table-of-contents with the 'expected' values on the disc would easily prevent disc-swapping (but not modchipping); I'm not sure whether any game ever did this"
The TOC is only reread when the lid has been opened, thus the need for the spring on the swap trick.

1) The "pro setup" you describe is nothing more than a modchipped PSX. The blue and green debugging stations are useless like Yarozes.

2) Yes, so what you do is make a multi-session CD-ROM. This way, you can re-write a new PS-EXE on a $2 disc over and over. Mind you that even though the PS-EXE's can only be up to 2 MB in size, that gives you ~325 writes, but the lead-in and lead-out sessions pad the track data giving you a significantly less write count of a 2 MB file.

3) They don't check for a wobble, but check the CD-ROM MCU has the correct license code and isn't being injected with it over and over. This is why stealth modchips would actually shutoff once they were booted.
Development Console: SCPH-5502 with 8MB RAM, MM3 Modchip, PAL 60 Colour Modification (for NTSC), DB-9 breakout headers for both RGB and Serial output and an Xplorer with CAETLA 0.34.

Development Computer: Windows 98, Pentium 3 [400MHz], 128MB SDRAM, DTL-H2000, DTL-H201A, 21" Sony Trinitron CRT, CD-ROM burner, 3.25" and 5.25" Floppy Diskette Drives and a ZIP 100 Diskette Drive.
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby yaroze » June 18th, 2016, 1:43 am

Shadow wrote:1) Yes, and SN. Systems actually made their own professional debugging and development cartridge to replace the DTL-H2000. This is that blue cartridge that looks exactly like an Xplorer/Xploder. It has a yellow PCB inside with a coin battery and some Altera CPLD's. This never took off though, and Sony didn't like it apparently.

I think I remember seeing an advert for the SN Systems cartridge in EDGE magazine (although it may have been for PSY-Q - I'm not sure)

Either way, it's a shame that Sony took a dim view of those cartridges (and/or never considered producing one of their own with on-board flash memory) because this theoretically would've solved the problem of having to locate the PlayStation (or Yaroze) right beside the (then-bulky) PC via a short serial cable, as the code could've simply been loaded onto either the parallel port device or a 2 MB memory card and then physically transferred across - although I imagine a memory card would've been ungodly slow, and perhaps the PS1 would ideally still be near the PC (to avoid repeated trips between rooms).

That said, most PCs didn't have USB ports in 1997 (and flash storage was relatively expensive at the time) so I'm not sure how easy a parallel-to-flash adaptor would've been (plus it would've cost more money than a simple serial cable)
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby Matt » June 18th, 2016, 12:51 pm

More photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/defor/sets/72157623680819477/

If we had this cartridge, it very well could be dumped and reversed so we could make our own development cartridges that worked with the official tools such as DBUGPSX.

This is the cartridge I'm talking about:
Image

"PsyQ PlayStation (C) Cirtech 1995 v2.1":
Image

There was also one that looked like this which was taken from the magazine advert below:
Image

Here:
Image

The Psy-Q documentation also notes the cartridge:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Development Console: SCPH-5502 with 8MB RAM, MM3 Modchip, PAL 60 Colour Modification (for NTSC), DB-9 breakout headers for both RGB and Serial output and an Xplorer with CAETLA 0.34.

Development Computer: Windows 98, Pentium 3 [400MHz], 128MB SDRAM, DTL-H2000, DTL-H201A, 21" Sony Trinitron CRT, CD-ROM burner, 3.25" and 5.25" Floppy Diskette Drives and a ZIP 100 Diskette Drive.
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby yaroze » June 19th, 2016, 12:34 am

Shadow wrote:This is the cartridge I'm talking about

I've also seen that PSY-Q magazine advert before (along with a similar piece of kit for the Sega Saturn)

gwald wrote:After boot, it's a waste of time checking region/wobble, but later games do (Final fantasy) rechecks for the wobble signal.

I don't totally agree that it's a waste of time - if somebody used disc-swapping to get a disc to boot (i.e. using the old CD player disc swap in the SCPH-1002 models), then re-checking the wobble (after booting) would be an easy way for a game to perform an extra check against disc-swapping (checking the BIOS region post-boot would also be an additional check that would even thwart modchips, as it's nothing to do with the wobble on the disc)

gwald wrote:The TOC is only reread when the lid has been opened, thus the need for the spring on the swap trick.

That's my point - the TOC is read into the PS1 RAM when the disc is first booted (before the PlayStation checks the wobble ), so if the disc is swapped afterwards (i.e. during a disc swap) with the lid button still depressed, then the TOC stored in the RAM will be from the first disc (not the second disc containing the game itself), so the latter could simply check the TOC stored in the RAM against the value it 'expects' to find (from the game disc), and if the two don't match then the game can easily detect that the disc has been swapped (even if the lid button was never 'opened')

Incidentally, this is why it was generally advised to use a game containing several CD-DA tracks during a disc swap (such as Tekken 1), or else any CD-DA audio on the second disc wouldn't play at all (as the TOC is loaded from the first disc), although the incorrect track would probably still be played anyway, due to the track start times being different

gwald wrote:I remember reading it, and recall something like, Sony owns the hardware, should they want it back.

According to Phil Harrison in EDGE magazine UK (issue 43 - March 1997) the black Yaroze PlayStation was definitely "yours to keep and treasure forever", but the access card and serial cable remained the property of Sony (as did the forum membership)
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby gwald » June 19th, 2016, 6:32 pm

@Shadow, That's really cool.. I bet it would have sold for a few 10k though!
Have you tried burning multi-session cdr and tested them on a PSX?
I didn't think the PSX could read multi-session cds for some reason :/

@yaroze, I can't ague with Phil Harrison, it's very strange to even mention it in an press interview.. what question was he asked?
Do you have a link to it or the actual magazine? if so any chance of a scan?

I didn't think to make a copy of the contract at the time, and haven't seen one on the internet :(
But I imagine the hardware section would be similar to a standard developer agreement, @Shadow do you have a copy of any of Sony's NDA?

Found some old info about the NY:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090402051 ... sx/yaroze/

This was just uploaded by a NY guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvPRJKc5oPU
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby yaroze » June 20th, 2016, 10:27 am

@gwald Scan attached as requested - Phil's quote is in the lower-left hand corner of the "Letters" section (and continued at the top of the second column)

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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby gwald » June 20th, 2016, 1:20 pm

Ha very cool :) Thank you!

Yeah, well.. i can only go by my own memory and well.. I would have to agree 100% with the guy that emailed. :D

If I remember correctly the application process.. I emailed them wanting more info, they posted me an envelope with the hi-gloss 'Open' brochure, NY membership application, (not 100% sure) also included the NDA & NY Contract.
You then of cause, fill it out, sign on all the lines, get a cheque and post it back to them.
I'm assuming, the emailer also read the contract and said, ha no thank you :evil:

I thought, well what are the chances of Sony actually wanting it back, so I went ahead with it :dance

I don't think the NDA/contract came with the welcome letter/member login info (after payment cleared).

:o there was no "membership fee" nor any on going fees, just the one Net Yaroze price.
There were optional extras like codewarrior and LIGHTWAVE 3D.

I don't recall at all what Phil is saying, but like the emailer, I'm in the SCEE territory, so the contracts/NY membership could have been different.

But, I personally think Phil knew the emailer was 100% correct, as I'm sure it was a standard dev NDA & contract (it was very legal, I think it even had the 3 (yellow, blue, grey) carbon copy thing).
I'm guessing he somehow knew that Sony was never going to ask for anything back, even if they band anyone.
And to my knowledge, no NY member was ever band, even though there was a bit of talking about things which shouldn't have been (piracy, AR, cdr's, PSY-Q stuff etc).
Either Sony didn't think it was malice (it wasn't really, just opinions/banter) or just didn't care :roll:


I'll also say, this kind of agreement (where you buy to use but legally don't own) is common with software, I guess Sony extend it to hardware for devs.

Very cool, thanks again for sharing :mrgreen:
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby Matt » June 20th, 2016, 2:06 pm

gwald wrote:@Shadow, Have you tried burning multi-session cdr and tested them on a PSX?
I didn't think the PSX could read multi-session cds for some reason :/

http://www.psxdev.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1014
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby gwald » June 21st, 2016, 5:52 pm

@Shadow, Thanks good to know :)

@yaroze Also, a good reason why there was two controllers included wasn't to develop two player games :lol:
But the 2nd controller is great for debugging purposes ie normal play with port 1, and move/change/edit/debug/etc things with port 2.
This wasn't documented anywhere, but I noticed some of the SCEE guys doing it.

I just saw a pro DTL-H2000 new in box on ebay (melbourne, australia 8-) ) and the pro's also got two controllers :mrgreen:
Image
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controllers.JPG
from ebay list: Sony Playstation PS PSOne DTL-H2000 & DTL-H201A Development Kit Bundle NEW RARE
(149.99 KiB) Not downloaded yet



Edit:
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SonyPapers.jpg
I found a low res image with the papers
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Last edited by gwald on June 25th, 2016, 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Black PlayStation ? (versus PSXSERIAL)

Postby Matt » June 21st, 2016, 6:16 pm

gwald wrote:I just saw a pro DTL-H2000 new in box on ebay (melbourne, australia ) and the pro's also got two controllers

The seller has been trying to sell this new H2000 for almost a year now.
He will never get what he is asking for it because H2000's are worth $100 at the most.

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