PlayStation PAL Series Colour/Color Modification (PAL60)

General information to do with the PlayStation 1 Hardware. Including modchips, pinouts, rare or obscure development equipment, etc.
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Mdv
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Post by Mdv » November 3rd, 2020, 2:13 am

a7mag3ddon wrote: September 4th, 2020, 1:25 am Thats what i dont get, my TV definitly supports RGB my Saturn RGB cable works, my Amstrad 6128 RGB cable works and my Megadrive RGB cable works.

It has a very old non stealth modchip installed, would that matter?

Is there any signals i can check? I know the voltage to pin 16 is there i checked that.

it's likley a faulty scart lead, are all pins present and not bent or missing?

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Post by damiank94 » September 9th, 2021, 9:53 pm

TriMesh wrote: September 3rd, 2020, 4:34 pm The later model PAL machines (SCPH-7002, SCPH-7502 and SCPH-9002) will produce NTSC-4.43 when running NTSC software. This was the output format typically used by multi-standard VCRs when playing back NTSC tapes, so a lot of Euro spec TVs can handle it.
Is there a problem with game speed like it is in older consoles? PAL PSone also outputs NTSC4.43?

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Post by TriMesh » September 19th, 2021, 6:00 pm

damiank94 wrote: September 9th, 2021, 9:53 pm
TriMesh wrote: September 3rd, 2020, 4:34 pm The later model PAL machines (SCPH-7002, SCPH-7502 and SCPH-9002) will produce NTSC-4.43 when running NTSC software. This was the output format typically used by multi-standard VCRs when playing back NTSC tapes, so a lot of Euro spec TVs can handle it.
Is there a problem with game speed like it is in older consoles? PAL PSone also outputs NTSC4.43?
Yes, exactly the same situation - the GPU clock is fixed by the hardware to the PAL clock so when switched to 60Hz it's not quite at the right frequency. The PSone video hardware can be generally considered to be identical to the SCPH-700x and later regular PSX video hardware.

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Post by bailey1607 » October 14th, 2021, 3:12 pm

Hi,
I'm installing dual oscillators in my PU-8 and I'm taking the parts from a PU-18 board. The guide I'm following says remove a capacitor and install it on the back of the board but the PU-18 has 2 capacitors, I believe a 1nF and a 100nF. So does anyone know which one, both or are neither of them correct for the PU-8 board?

EDIT: Nevermind. I installed both capacitors and it works great! I'll leave this here in case someone else has the same situation.

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Post by setiawan » October 17th, 2021, 3:05 am

Just bought a CRT that my PAL PS1 (SCPH-7002) isn't playing nice with, and I'm wondering if this mod would fix the issue.

The PS1 has been modded so that it can run NTSC games. When it does play NTSC games, my understanding is that it is outputting PAL60 (i.e. PAL color encoding at 60hz). With most other CRT's that I've tried, it detects the signal as PAL and displays colors correctly.

With the new CRT I just bought, whenever the PS1 is playing NTSC games, the CRT detects it as NTSC. The CRT lets me switch between 3.58 and 4.43. When on 3.58, the picture is grayscale, and with 4.43, the colors are.. wrong. Green is missing entirely, and the other colors are a bit off. It seems like this new CRT is just assuming that a signal at 60hz must be NTSC and tries to decode the color accordingly, whereas my PS1 is actually still sending PAL.

So in short, am I understanding correctly that this mod would force my PAL PS1 to send a signal with NTSC color encoding, and subsequently my monitor would display the colors correctly? Is this exactly the kind of problem that this mod aims to fix?

Thanks all!

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Post by setiawan » October 17th, 2021, 4:36 pm

Okay so I just tried this mod, and.. no discernible difference. Did I do something wrong, or am I just misunderstanding what this mod does?

Mod:
20211017_154624 copy.jpg
240p test suite set to PAL:
20211017_162304 copy.jpg
240p test suite set to NTSC, monitor set to NTSC 4.43:
20211017_162328 copy.jpg
240p test suite set to NTSC, monitor set to NTSC3.58:
20211017_162336 copy.jpg
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Post by TheShadowRunner » October 21st, 2021, 11:13 am

Isn't the "Hue" setting just off on your NTSC 4.43 ?

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Post by setiawan » October 22nd, 2021, 12:51 am

There is no "hue" control on the front panel, and adjust any of the front panel controls don't seem to affect it. Anything else I could check?

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Post by TheShadowRunner » October 22nd, 2021, 1:13 am

Hmm.. try finding the "service manual" online for the monitor and hopefully this can be tweaked somewhere.
What make / model is it ?

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Post by setiawan » October 22nd, 2021, 2:23 am

It's a Panasonic WV-CM1450. I've looked high and low for a service manual for this but haven't been able to find one. I'm beginning to think that it's just been lost to time now.

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Post by TheShadowRunner » October 22nd, 2021, 2:54 am

I'm guessing "Hue" would be called "Tint" on this monitor. Were you able to verify this "Tint" control works ?

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Post by damiank94 » October 29th, 2021, 9:25 pm

TriMesh wrote: September 19th, 2021, 6:00 pm
damiank94 wrote: September 9th, 2021, 9:53 pm
TriMesh wrote: September 3rd, 2020, 4:34 pm The later model PAL machines (SCPH-7002, SCPH-7502 and SCPH-9002) will produce NTSC-4.43 when running NTSC software. This was the output format typically used by multi-standard VCRs when playing back NTSC tapes, so a lot of Euro spec TVs can handle it.
Is there a problem with game speed like it is in older consoles? PAL PSone also outputs NTSC4.43?
Yes, exactly the same situation - the GPU clock is fixed by the hardware to the PAL clock so when switched to 60Hz it's not quite at the right frequency. The PSone video hardware can be generally considered to be identical to the SCPH-700x and later regular PSX video hardware.
To clarify. Is RGB output affected by this? Or only Composite/S-video?

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Post by TriMesh » November 18th, 2021, 1:59 pm

damiank94 wrote: October 29th, 2021, 9:25 pm
TriMesh wrote: September 19th, 2021, 6:00 pm
damiank94 wrote: September 9th, 2021, 9:53 pm

Is there a problem with game speed like it is in older consoles? PAL PSone also outputs NTSC4.43?
Yes, exactly the same situation - the GPU clock is fixed by the hardware to the PAL clock so when switched to 60Hz it's not quite at the right frequency. The PSone video hardware can be generally considered to be identical to the SCPH-700x and later regular PSX video hardware.
To clarify. Is RGB output affected by this? Or only Composite/S-video?
All output formats have the "running at slightly the wrong speed" issue - the problem with broken off-frequency color subcarriers obviously only applies to Composite/S-Video because RGB doesn't use a subcarrier at all.

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Post by L10N37 » December 13th, 2021, 1:16 pm

I first did this mod more than half a lifetime ago! I had an SCPH7502 as a teenager. Original documents suggest only a link wire and no pin lift.. I still remember getting my old crow kit to install in the mail! and having to patch games (it may have being a newer stealth chip, and I opted for less wire install)

I'm a bit confused about this mod on the PU22+ after poking with a scope and checking service guides etc.

So up to PU18, we have the NTSC GPU and the PAL GPU where the sub carrier is derived from either. The pin we are lifting for later PU22+ models is high for NTSC and LOW for PAL mode. It's used on region free mods like PSXTAL and the DFO to sense game and console region.

Up to and including PU20 we have:

Sub carriers
PAL GPU: 53.2Mhz / 12 = 4.43Mhz
NTSC GPU: 53.69 / 15 = 3.5793Mhz (3.58)

Using a PAL console as example:
When we run an NTSC game (via composite or S-video) we actually get the division of 15 applied to our PAL GPU clock
53.2 / 15 = 3.5476Mhz (and boom, no colour or sometimes a weird rainbow effect)

The old school fix (a general summary)?? Remove that sub-carrier from the video encoder and wire a physical PAL Colourburst crystal in permanently! Now whether the console is running a PAL game or an NTSC game, the sub carrier is no longer the division of the GPU clock. It's ALWAYS 4.43Mhz. Now we have PAL and PAL60/NTSC443


What im confused about??
Well on PU22+ there is no division. CPU/GPU/Sub.C frequencies are all generated on separate pins by a clock synthesiser/generator circuit with a single reference clock (different IC and reference clock for each region). The 4.43Mhz frequency is hard wired from factory and when playing an NTSC game it won't change. The old-school fix is built in!

What are we actually doing when we pull that pins pad permanently low? Console thinks a PAL game is always in the system, even when it's not?

I'm a bit lost on this one after making the psxtal 3FO, I have never needed a colour fix on a PU22+
Every set has being fine with NTSC games in full colour.
Last edited by L10N37 on December 13th, 2021, 2:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by L10N37 » December 13th, 2021, 1:54 pm

Also for completeness

DFO only outputs PAL and NTSC GPU clocks, this is fine for older models (sub carriers derived from these freq's) but PU22+ with a DFO only fixes the GPU frequency for scalers. It won't correct the sub carrier. You may as well cut the track, separate the 2 clock input pins to the GPU (N for NTSC and P for PAL, which actually should stand for Negative/Positive i've been told) and wire in a big 5v NTSC GPU crystal with the clock out on a 220ohm resistor direct to the clock 'N' pin on GPU. This is the same fix (scalers only).
I think retroleah may have being the first to do this (he seems to have disappeared).


Screen frequencies (not to be confused with any of the other frequencies covered above) we are talking NTSC = 60hz/ PAL = 50hz
PAL game outputs 49.76hz (little off spec from factory)

NTSC game with PAL GPU and no fix outputs 59.2xx something (this is also your PAL60/NTSC443, full colour with old school sub carrier fix-but issues with scalers)

NTSC game with correct GPU does 59.84/59.93/59.94 (OSSC display seems to choose one of the 3)

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Post by happy_ » January 18th, 2022, 3:45 am

bailey1607 wrote: October 14th, 2021, 3:12 pm Hi,
I'm installing dual oscillators in my PU-8 and I'm taking the parts from a PU-18 board. The guide I'm following says remove a capacitor and install it on the back of the board but the PU-18 has 2 capacitors, I believe a 1nF and a 100nF. So does anyone know which one, both or are neither of them correct for the PU-8 board?

EDIT: Nevermind. I installed both capacitors and it works great! I'll leave this here in case someone else has the same situation.
I'm in the same situation. Just to clarify: you installed them in series?

Also, I followed the instructions here: viewtopic.php?t=628&sid=e7fbc0e63035589 ... c407#p5559
In the pictures there is an empty spot next to the spot where the cap goes. On my board there is a cap installed there. Does anyone know if that matters or changes anything?

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