[CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by LameGuy64 » December 28th, 2017, 3:30 pm

@misthalu I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed my Marilyn homebrew game! I should mention that credit of the Marilyn character goes to nerdsman567 on DeviantArt as he's the owner of the character.

Yeah, reason why I cancelled it was not only the Marilyn fan-base loosing interest in the project but also because I kinda ran out of ideas for the project and that I wanted to move on to a new and much more advanced project that I'm more interested in getting into. Calling the game well coded is a bit of an overstatement because the actual coding under the hood is some of the messiest I've made as I was still new to C programming and didn't know how to properly make my code modular back when I used to work on that game. Despite that, the game somehow ran quite well still.

There's a slim possibility that I might revive this project soon but I don't really have plans for that at the moment and I'm likely going to port the game to Windows as I learned that pretty much all of the folks within the Marilyn fanbase weren't really able to play the game themselves despite me including an emulator in the game's download that would allow them to play it on a PC without a modded console (I guess people in art communities are generally tech illiterate). My main focus with PlayStation homebrew at the moment is a 3D engine project of my very own which I plan to use for a 3D action platformer game in the likes of Super Mario 64 with it once it is usable enough. I should be able to make a prototype reel of it by January of next year on my Youtube channel.

Interesting, I wonder how much you can do with Java on Blu-ray as far as graphical functionality goes. I imagine you can't really do much but I'd be surprised if there's some basic 3D graphics capabilities on it.

@Aerokoth Well, PlayStation homebrew development is pretty fun especially if you wanna see how much you can do with the console limited just by your programming skill and understanding of the console itself. Though this is coming from a homebrew developer that knows a lot about the console already.

The downsides with getting into PlayStation homebrew development however is that the majority of the community is mostly pretty dormant and finding homebrew development resources (such as tutorials) are often scarce.
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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by misthalu » December 28th, 2017, 6:37 pm

LameGuy64 wrote:Yeah, reason why I cancelled it was not only the Marilyn fan-base loosing interest in the project but also because I kinda ran out of ideas for the project and that I wanted to move on to a new and much more advanced project that I'm more interested in getting into.
This happens to most of us. We get tired of the project at some point, and starts looking into something else. This is why most devs never complete a project. But we really should try to finish more projects. ;)
Ran out of ideas? The engine is already full of functionality. In my opinion, all it really needs is more levels.
And I don't mean to sound rude here, but who cares about fans of the Marilyn character losing interest? I have no clue who Marilyn is. To me she's the character of this game, and that's about it. Is it really important that people has an interest in the character before seeing the game?
Does she appear in other games?
LameGuy64 wrote:Calling the game well coded is a bit of an overstatement because the actual coding under the hood is some of the messiest I've made as I was still new to C programming and didn't know how to properly make my code modular back when I used to work on that game. Despite that, the game somehow ran quite well still.
The only thing that matters in my book is whether a game runs fine or not. And Marilyn runs fine, smoothly and nice.
I've seen "well coded" games (meaning, proper OOP and whatnot) that didn't run smoothly at all precisely because it was "well coded". The main focus of a game project shouldn't be readable code imho, but rather speed. If it runs smoothly on the intended platform, then it was coded well. :) This often means optimization that makes the code difficult to read, and so what? ;)
LameGuy64 wrote:There's a slim possibility that I might revive this project soon but I don't really have plans for that at the moment and I'm likely going to port the game to Windows as I learned that pretty much all of the folks within the Marilyn fanbase weren't really able to play the game themselves despite me including an emulator in the game's download that would allow them to play it on a PC without a modded console (I guess people in art communities are generally tech illiterate). My main focus with PlayStation homebrew at the moment is a 3D engine project of my very own which I plan to use for a 3D action platformer game in the likes of Super Mario 64 with it once it is usable enough. I should be able to make a prototype reel of it by January of next year on my Youtube channel.
Yea, I've seen this problem myself too.
I like what Orion Soft is doing in this regard. (http://orionsoft.free.fr). He's simply offering people to buy a disc version, complete with print and case. But of course we know that everyone will prefers just getting everything for free.
(I'm also quite impressed by the number of different platforms Orion Soft targets).

For my latest Blu-ray project, I'm doing the same: The ISO file is freely downloadable. I list a bunch of players that can play it, including various TV boxes and PC players. And then I also offer 2 different versions of the disc; "Collectors Edition" and "Budget version". See http://www.8bitMemoirs.com

Don't know what else we could do to make life easier for people. Except maybe try to target multiple platforms.
LameGuy64 wrote:Interesting, I wonder how much you can do with Java on Blu-ray as far as graphical functionality goes. I imagine you can't really do much but I'd be surprised if there's some basic 3D graphics capabilities on it.
Blu-ray Disc Java is essentially Java 1.3 with some additional Blu-ray specific API's. So no, you can't do much.
However, since the gaming consoles has a lot of CPU power (compared to a standard Blu-ray player), you can get away with a lot.
This demo by Luis of TRSI is a good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_E9VaXywG0

For my first Blu-ray project, I took an older cellphone game I coded back in 2009 and ported it to BD-J.
Cellphone version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4CesgEuDB0
Blu-ray version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bC5FV-2AY4

Cellphone version would give me anywhere from 15 to 40 fps depending on device, but the Blu-ray version gives me up to 170 fps on the PS3, so I think there's room for some interesting homebrew here. :)
LameGuy64 wrote:The downsides with getting into PlayStation homebrew development however is that the majority of the community is mostly pretty dormant and finding homebrew development resources (such as tutorials) are often scarce.
Exactly the same with BD-J. Very difficult finding any guides, and very few people seem to have an interest.
But isn't that part of what makes it interesting to us? Doing something anti mainstream?
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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by gwald » December 29th, 2017, 10:58 am

@LameGuy64
PSXSDK is for scrubs, PsyQ all the way!
One of the few competently skilled PSX homebrew developers in PSXDEV.
Your footer is pretty offensive to people actually using PSXSDK (and not an illegal, pirated SDK).
And the 2nd line :lol: :lol: you are so leet :clap (your not, if you were leet you'd make your own SDK :o )

And you mustn't know the meaning of the word 'homebrew'
Because, if your using an official SDK, it's not homebrew :naughty
Well.. unless it's an official homebrew SDK :dance

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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by Xavi92 » December 29th, 2017, 12:10 pm

gwald wrote:Your footer is pretty offensive to people actually using PSXSDK (and not an illegal, pirated SDK).
Actually, it's not the first time I see hatred against PSXSDK. Whereas it may not feature as much capabilities or documentation as Psy-Q, it's still a nice approach to an open-source SDK. In fact, if anyone feels it lacks something, but have knowledge about the system internals, why not make a collaborative effort into it? TBH I wish I could deeply know about the GTE so that 3D support could be added into PSXSDK.

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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by Shadow » December 29th, 2017, 1:45 pm

I agree with Xavi92 here. Problem is, the repo for it is scattered everywhere. There isn't one place where it can be found. It's really become a giant mess unfortunately.
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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by misthalu » December 29th, 2017, 6:08 pm

gwald wrote:And you mustn't know the meaning of the word 'homebrew'
Because, if your using an official SDK, it's not homebrew :naughty
This is not true. The content of that Wiki link even contradicts your own words:

Homebrew is a term frequently applied to video games or other software produced by consumers to target proprietary hardware platforms (usually with hardware restrictions) not typically user-programmable or that use proprietary storage methods. This can include games developed with official development kits, such as Net Yaroze, Linux for PlayStation 2 or Microsoft XNA.

Homebrew is merely when small-scale unofficial sparetime hobby developers create a game. Doesn't matter how they do it, or what platform they target. It's basically just a word used to distinguish professional games developed by big software companies from smaller games developed by amateur individuals.

Definition of "amateur":
Someone who engage oneself in an unpaid (or low paid if you're lucky) project simply because it's interesting.

I've even heard the word "amateur" defined as "Someone who loves", and that makes amateur games (i.e. homebrew) much more interesting to me than professional games. :)
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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by Xavi92 » December 29th, 2017, 10:54 pm

Shadow wrote:I agree with Xavi92 here. Problem is, the repo for it is scattered everywhere. There isn't one place where it can be found. It's really become a giant mess unfortunately.
The only main/official repo for PSXSDK is Tails92's website http://unhaut.x10host.com/psxsdk/ , which hosts both the newest and older versions of the SDK. On the other hand, I'm hosting a fork of the 20150729 version (0.599) on GitHub (https://github.com/XaviDCR92/psxsdk-20150729) which introduces some experimental modifications. It's also the version of the SDK used for my games.
Another fork made by another user can be found at https://github.com/simias/psxsdk

As long as Tails92's website is active, PSXSDK remains centralized, so IMHO I don't think everything is as scattered as you stated.

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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by gwald » December 31st, 2017, 12:34 pm

There's still good people out there hacking on emulators, assemblers and homebrew SDK's, while the official kits are better now, they will always be static.

I can add Krom to the list.. his working on N64 3D stuff but also has and will work on PSX too!. :clap



misthalu wrote: Homebrew is merely when small-scale unofficial sparetime hobby developers create a game. Doesn't matter how they do it, or what platform they target. It's basically just a word used to distinguish professional games developed by big software companies from smaller games developed by amateur individuals.

Definition of "amateur":
Someone who engage oneself in an unpaid (or low paid if you're lucky) project simply because it's interesting.

I've even heard the word "amateur" defined as "Someone who loves", and that makes amateur games (i.e. homebrew) much more interesting to me than professional games. :)
Well, i'm old enough to remember the original meaning of the word!
But isn't "indie" inclusive enough, we need to hijack homebrew now? :oops: :evil:
Indie, what does that even mean now :shrug

TBH, I hate wiki/internet definitions, it's very modern bias, and it 'forgets' the origination of things.
I wouldn't call Net Yaroze homebrew either, and Sony's marketing never used the word 'homebrew' TMK, it was always a 'hobbyist' kit.

Homebrew (read their definition) originated around the 70s, where the tech was literally DIY, home made and "brewed".
So to say anything developed with an official SDK as homebrew :lol: :lol: that's the antithesis of the word!
Call it hacking, amateur, #indiedev, AAA-wannabe or whatever else you 'liberally' like to call it but it's literally not homebrew!

@lameguy64, I liked your old footer :shock:
"Anyone who only wants commercial homebrew is STUPID!!!"
That one wasn't offensive at all :clap :lol: :lol:

Edit:
or v2:
"Anyone who only wants to play 'professional' commercial homebrew are idiots (no offense though)."
So not offensive! :roll:
I wonder if Orion_ was not offended? :|

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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by misthalu » January 1st, 2018, 11:19 pm

gwald wrote:Well, i'm old enough to remember the original meaning of the word!
Are you now? :)
So that means you know the word originally referred to alcoholic beverages like beer and wine, when people brewed it themselves at home rather than at a shop or a factory.

Good. Then you should also know that's still what the word means: Something you do at home rather than at shop or factory.
However you do it, whichever SDK or distillery or whatnot you're using, has nothing whatsoever to do with it. You could buy a professional distillery and put it in your basement. It would still be homebrew despite you not having built the distillery yourself. As long as you're the one brewing the beer, it's homebrew! ;)
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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by gwald » January 2nd, 2018, 10:20 am

:naughty
To use your analogy, homebrew is the actual brewing (fermenting and/or distilling) of RAW ingredients.
But using an official SDK is like buying unflavored alcohol (vodka etc) and just adding flavoring and saying it's homebrew, it's not.

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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by LameGuy64 » January 2nd, 2018, 11:58 am

While PSXSDK is pretty impressive on its own, you can't really do much with it especially when trying to do 3D and that it does not support any form of audio/video streaming except CD-DA. Its simply better to use the official SDK unless you want to devote a chunk of your life reverse-engineering and implementing support for such features into PSXSDK. Oh, and binaries compiled with PSXSDK cannot be debugged at all on my DTL-H2000.

I love how this thread for a now cancelled game project of mine has transformed into a debate of what should be considered homebrew or not based on SDK used. * grabs popcorn *
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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by misthalu » January 2nd, 2018, 6:17 pm

gwald wrote::naughty
To use your analogy, homebrew is the actual brewing (fermenting and/or distilling) of RAW ingredients.
But using an official SDK is like buying unflavored alcohol (vodka etc) and just adding flavoring and saying it's homebrew, it's not.
Yes it is. That's exactly what it is.
I could keep on repeating myself, and find links to articles that explains what it is, but since you reject anything anyone else says there's no point in doing that.

Just this last example: Android.
Here it's actually (mostly) the other way around! Professional companies don't use the official SDK. They instead use their own SDK which lets them compile their C source to several different platforms.
Meanwhile, any (or definitely most) hobby sparetime developers use the official SDK and codes in Java.

So by your definition, the professional companies makes homebrew, since they do not use the official SDK. And amateurs does not......

https://xkcd.com/386/
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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by Santikun » January 16th, 2019, 2:20 pm

Hey! Sorry to bother, but I'm trying to use the Marilyn project to learn a bit about PSX development since it looks life a very helpful resource to start with, but I'm having a few issues compiling it;

I downloaded your DEV PACK and I'm trying to use the run_emu.bat file. I downloaded Revenge of StripISO and the BUILDCD.exe and put it in the same folder, but it gives me this error:
Image

Now, I tried to make the fix Rettroix posted by replacing a line in the .bat file, which lead to this new error appearing:
Image

How can I fix this? I'm using the prebuilt virtual machine, I've also compiled other stuff earlier so I know PsyQ is set up just fine.

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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by LameGuy64 » January 17th, 2019, 11:44 am

Its been a very long time since I've last compiled this game. I think its because the batch file is looking for Dosbox to execute BUILDCD as I used to work on this game in Windows 7 64-bit.

Try commenting out the dos_emulator variable at line 19 in run_emu.bat. That should make the batch file run buildcd directly which should work if you're using a 32-bit version of Windows. You may also need to change the value of SystemArea in marilyn.cti to include a full path to the LICENSEA.DAT file in your PsyQ setup.

While my old Marilyn source may be a good starting point to learning homebrew on the PS1, I don't recommend following some of the pretty bad practices employed in it such as including C files instead of the more standard (and faster) compiling each C file as individual object files which are then linked together in the final step using a makefile and GNU make from mingw32-gcc or msys.
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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by Santikun » January 19th, 2019, 10:45 am

It worked just perfectly, thank you so much!

By the way, I've seen your other works, they're awesome and a very helpful asset to those who want to begin PSX development. Keep up the good work! :D

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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by catcodi » July 16th, 2019, 10:19 am

Hello! Sorry, I use a translator. I would like to make a game with your graphics, if you don't mind. Watch my latest video https://vk.com/video379008021_456239155 thanks!

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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by LameGuy64 » July 18th, 2019, 6:05 pm

Uhh, why not you just draw original graphics instead? I don't think the creator of Marilyn would want that.
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Re: [CANCELLED] Marilyn Fan-game Project Thread

Post by fdpsan » October 11th, 2019, 5:20 pm

Wow shame you cancelled it, that's some high quality stuff !
Anyway, really nice of you to release the code, so we can learn from it !

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